Comments on: What’s So Great About The Ivy League Anyway? http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/ Ivy league Insecurites Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:09:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Word http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-31833 Word Sat, 04 Jun 2011 10:05:40 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-31833 Well, then again there's always the other definite possibility -- that you're just jaded and bitter rejects. It's not a mistake that in cross-admittance studies, an overwhelming majority (probably in the neighborhood of 90+ %) would choose any of the Ivies over Rutgers. Not that Rutgers is a "bad school" by any stretch of the imagination, it just doesn't offer the resources, professors, student bodies and concurrent alumni networks or initial job opportunities of more widely regarded institutions. To deny these facts is simply willing ignorance. Obviously you would have to be foolish to argue that, in large part, the prerequisites for attending an elite institution are not easier facilitated for those who have significant financial means. The average person needs a great deal of help to earn that 2350+ on his SAT; the average person needs a great deal of tutoring to earn that 4.0 GPA; the average person hoping to be recruited for Crew, or get noticed for being a chess champion or piano prodigy will need a LOT of instruction, practice, time, and otherwise financially burdensome preparation. There's one thing you all seem to be forgetting, though: these halls are not filled with "average people." Believe it or not, there ARE people who through innate intelligence, incomparable drive or inherent ability are simply able to achieve without a great deal of help along the way. I know I've found a number of people without too much difficulty who came from environments in which they managed to pull off a 3.87 GPA and 2250 on their SATS WHILE raising four other children from their crack-addicted mother and paying the rent. Or the girl from Dorchester (a pretty ghetto area of Boston) who ran track, was student-body president, started a small business and came out as a lesbian after her graduation. It happens. The other elephant in the ivies are the two disproportionately represented minorities -- Jews and Asians. Did either of them come to this country with silver spoons in their mouths? No. Jews literally precipitated the concept of a ghetto, and chances are that all those areas you think of as dangerous today--at least on the East Coast, especially in the NY and Boston areas-- were inhabited largely by Jews at some point within the past two generations. And yet, they've churned out some of the most intelligent, accomplished and capable men and women our nation has ever seen (quite a few of which were Ivy-educated). And no, I'm not Jewish. Asians haven't exactly had it easy either, and the number of first generation Asian-Americans whose parents have sacrificed everything to help their child get into one of the world's best universities is mind-boggling. Different cultures place different emphases on education and intelligence, and to deny these differences (regardless of and independent from wealth) is almost as ignorant as you must be if you actually believe your rationalizations of why ivies aren't important. You don't need to be a genius to appreciate they aren't the end-all-be-alls of education and life, but you have to be pretty foolish to have no respect whatsoever for their incomparable offerings. Last question -- if you really care so little about and think so little of the Ivy League, what on earth brought you to "ivyleagueinsecurities.com"? Well, then again there’s always the other definite possibility — that you’re just jaded and bitter rejects. It’s not a mistake that in cross-admittance studies, an overwhelming majority (probably in the neighborhood of 90+ %) would choose any of the Ivies over Rutgers. Not that Rutgers is a “bad school” by any stretch of the imagination, it just doesn’t offer the resources, professors, student bodies and concurrent alumni networks or initial job opportunities of more widely regarded institutions. To deny these facts is simply willing ignorance.

Obviously you would have to be foolish to argue that, in large part, the prerequisites for attending an elite institution are not easier facilitated for those who have significant financial means. The average person needs a great deal of help to earn that 2350+ on his SAT; the average person needs a great deal of tutoring to earn that 4.0 GPA; the average person hoping to be recruited for Crew, or get noticed for being a chess champion or piano prodigy will need a LOT of instruction, practice, time, and otherwise financially burdensome preparation. There’s one thing you all seem to be forgetting, though: these halls are not filled with “average people.”

Believe it or not, there ARE people who through innate intelligence, incomparable drive or inherent ability are simply able to achieve without a great deal of help along the way. I know I’ve found a number of people without too much difficulty who came from environments in which they managed to pull off a 3.87 GPA and 2250 on their SATS WHILE raising four other children from their crack-addicted mother and paying the rent. Or the girl from Dorchester (a pretty ghetto area of Boston) who ran track, was student-body president, started a small business and came out as a lesbian after her graduation. It happens.

The other elephant in the ivies are the two disproportionately represented minorities — Jews and Asians. Did either of them come to this country with silver spoons in their mouths? No. Jews literally precipitated the concept of a ghetto, and chances are that all those areas you think of as dangerous today–at least on the East Coast, especially in the NY and Boston areas– were inhabited largely by Jews at some point within the past two generations. And yet, they’ve churned out some of the most intelligent, accomplished and capable men and women our nation has ever seen (quite a few of which were Ivy-educated). And no, I’m not Jewish.

Asians haven’t exactly had it easy either, and the number of first generation Asian-Americans whose parents have sacrificed everything to help their child get into one of the world’s best universities is mind-boggling.

Different cultures place different emphases on education and intelligence, and to deny these differences (regardless of and independent from wealth) is almost as ignorant as you must be if you actually believe your rationalizations of why ivies aren’t important. You don’t need to be a genius to appreciate they aren’t the end-all-be-alls of education and life, but you have to be pretty foolish to have no respect whatsoever for their incomparable offerings.

Last question — if you really care so little about and think so little of the Ivy League, what on earth brought you to “ivyleagueinsecurities.com”?

]]> By: AM http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-10923 AM Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:05:01 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-10923 Can I tell you something? this is the first blog that I have seen that doesn't frown on other school's because it isn't any ivy. I like this about this blog, you seem very humble and real! Can I tell you something? this is the first blog that I have seen that doesn’t frown on other school’s because it isn’t any ivy. I like this about this blog, you seem very humble and real!

]]> By: David http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-8968 David Tue, 29 Jun 2010 03:53:19 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-8968 Hello William, As a Rutgers U student, I support your knock on what it means to go to an Elite University,I have realized that my time here has been intellectually stimulating as well as demanding. Unlike the typical Ivy league, Rutgers is for the middle class that can't afford to dish out a 1 million dollar paycheck to the college. So to all that believe that an ivy league is a waste of money,why don't you go to Rutgers to prove that you can handle the rigor of an ivy league that you can afford. Hello William,

As a Rutgers U student, I support your knock on what it means to go to an Elite University,I have realized that my time here has been intellectually stimulating as well as demanding. Unlike the typical Ivy league, Rutgers is for the middle class that can’t afford to dish out a 1 million dollar paycheck to the college. So to all that believe that an ivy league is a waste of money,why don’t you go to Rutgers to prove that you can handle the rigor of an ivy league that you can afford.

]]> By: William http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-5763 William Sat, 03 Apr 2010 15:56:38 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-5763 My dear James, Your response serves only to show how irrelevant the "Ivy league" has become, methinks ("methinks" - will you get real). I pursued and received a well earned post-grad degree in a science discipline, at one of the four oldest schools in the league (our regular nemesis are the orange men). Surrounding me were extremely bright people, with unbridled interests in their areas of study, and strong work ethics. None were there because mommy and daddy had deep pockets. Indeed, I will give you that there are many kids fortunate enough to have come from well heeled families; however time and time again they never appreciate the opportunity "laid before them", no - fat bank accounts, cotillions, and golf social networks are what opened the door for them. None earned the right to be there through hard diligent work and persistence. There was a time when getting into the ancient eight meant years of blood, sweat and tears, and then more blood and tears, and sometimes even rejection on the first go around.......but no more, as you have demonstrated. Something else of interest for you; due to proximity, I’ve come to know a few Rutgers U. graduates. Pound for pound Rutgers produces more hard working, well grounded and HUMBLE graduates than I have seen come out of any Ivy. They are well known doctors, lawyers, CEO's, scientists, surgeons, politicians, and so on. Am I extremely proud to have been educated in the Ivy league? Hell yes; I worked my ass of before getting in, and it has opened doors for me that otherwise would not have been opened. However, even after I received my acceptance letter those long years ago; I thought to myself -“this is just some old dusty school that’s been around a long time – something about founded in the seventeen hundreds or whatever – I may as well have a go at it”..…and I thought nothing more of it until graduation. My simple advice to you, "Ivy to Ivy"? Be humble and self depreciating…and be most sure to bring your "A" game, should you sit across from a Rutgers U graduate. In many cases the name on your sheepskin will only mean you have to prove more. My dear James,
Your response serves only to show how irrelevant the “Ivy league” has become, methinks (“methinks” – will you get real). I pursued and received a well earned post-grad degree in a science discipline, at one of the four oldest schools in the league (our regular nemesis are the orange men).
Surrounding me were extremely bright people, with unbridled interests in their areas of study, and strong work ethics. None were there because mommy and daddy had deep pockets.
Indeed, I will give you that there are many kids fortunate enough to have come from well heeled families; however time and time again they never appreciate the opportunity “laid before them”, no – fat bank accounts, cotillions, and golf social networks are what opened the door for them. None earned the right to be there through hard diligent work and persistence.
There was a time when getting into the ancient eight meant years of blood, sweat and tears, and then more blood and tears, and sometimes even rejection on the first go around…….but no more, as you have demonstrated.
Something else of interest for you; due to proximity, I’ve come to know a few Rutgers U. graduates. Pound for pound Rutgers produces more hard working, well grounded and HUMBLE graduates than I have seen come out of any Ivy. They are well known doctors, lawyers, CEO’s, scientists, surgeons, politicians, and so on.
Am I extremely proud to have been educated in the Ivy league? Hell yes; I worked my ass of before getting in, and it has opened doors for me that otherwise would not have been opened. However, even after I received my acceptance letter those long years ago; I thought to myself -“this is just some old dusty school that’s been around a long time – something about founded in the seventeen hundreds or whatever – I may as well have a go at it”..…and I thought nothing more of it until graduation.
My simple advice to you, “Ivy to Ivy”? Be humble and self depreciating…and be most sure to bring your “A” game, should you sit across from a Rutgers U graduate. In many cases the name on your sheepskin will only mean you have to prove more.

]]> By: Jimmy http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-5394 Jimmy Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:52:26 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-5394 Ivy Leaguer said: That’s a blatant misconception. From what basis do you conclude “most cases”? I went to an Ivy and can think of only one person I met there whose admission had anything to do with her parents. Me: If you truly believe that, you're an utter fool. Ivy Leaguer said: True, if you are “legacy”, you are likely to be admitted (If your parents went, it’s more likely that you will attend without financial aid- so it economically makes the most sense to admit “legacy” students)- that being said, these students are at least as good as and usually better than non-legacy students; an admission spot would not be given to a lesser-quality student purely because of their parents’ attendance status. Me: First, the issue is not necessarily legacies or even outright buy-ins---both of which, incidentally, occur far more often than you claim. The real issue is the extent to which a student's socioeconomic environment (parents) predisposes him to getting the test scores necessary to win admission the "legitimate" (Ha!) way. Pray tell, how many Ivy league kids come from working-class families? The answer: virtually none. According to statistics, 85 percent of the Harvard student body comes from the richest 7.7 percent of American households. Further, a recent Princeton study found that the bottom economic quartile accounts for three percent(!) of the student body at 146 selective colleges and universities featured in the study. Ivy Leaguer said: Every school has an issue of letting students in (who otherwise would not be) due to financial “incentive” from their parents in the form of a donation. This is by no means exclusive to elite schools. Me: This is utterly asinine. Here's a bulletin: no one is going to pay anything to get their kid into a non-elite school. Do you really think that someone is going to offer a bribe to get their kid into Rutgers? The overwhelming majority of buy-ins occur at the elite schools. Ivy Leaguer: I do think that in most cases, people either have a drive to succeed, or they do not. I come from a blue-collar family. None of my relatives have attended an elite school; in fact, most have not attended college at all. As long as I can remember, I have had a fierce drive to succeed, to learn, to win, and to maximize every waking moment to it’s fullest potential. Me: How can you type these things about yourself without laughing? Do you have any idea what a tool you sound like? And I'd love to see where you grew up, and where your parents went to school. It wouldn't be nearly as blue-collar as you claim, methinks. Ivy Leaguer said:I will stand up for my belief that an ivy league school absolutely does represent the character of a person. Me: And I will stand up for my belief that you are a tool. Well, I guess that the rich just happen to have more "character" than everyone else, seeing as how they prevail in the Ivy league at such a scandalous rate. Oh, and I guess your so-called blue-collar family must be of a very low character, seeing as how none of them went to Ivy League schools. Congratulations. You're a typical Ivy tool. Ivy Leaguer said:

That’s a blatant misconception. From what basis do you conclude “most cases”? I went to an Ivy and can think of only one person I met there whose admission had anything to do with her parents.

Me: If you truly believe that, you’re an utter fool.

Ivy Leaguer said: True, if you are “legacy”, you are likely to be admitted (If your parents went, it’s more likely that you will attend without financial aid- so it economically makes the most sense to admit “legacy” students)- that being said, these students are at least as good as and usually better than non-legacy students; an admission spot would not be given to a lesser-quality student purely because of their parents’ attendance status.

Me: First, the issue is not necessarily legacies or even outright buy-ins—both of which, incidentally, occur far more often than you claim. The real issue is the extent to which a student’s socioeconomic environment (parents) predisposes him to getting the test scores necessary to win admission the “legitimate” (Ha!) way. Pray tell, how many Ivy league kids come from working-class families? The answer: virtually none. According to statistics, 85 percent of the Harvard student body comes from the richest 7.7 percent of American households. Further, a recent Princeton study found that the bottom economic quartile accounts for three percent(!) of the student body at 146 selective colleges and universities featured in the study.

Ivy Leaguer said:
Every school has an issue of letting students in (who otherwise would not be) due to financial “incentive” from their parents in the form of a donation. This is by no means exclusive to elite schools.

Me: This is utterly asinine. Here’s a bulletin: no one is going to pay anything to get their kid into a non-elite school. Do you really think that someone is going to offer a bribe to get their kid into Rutgers? The overwhelming majority of buy-ins occur at the elite schools.

Ivy Leaguer:
I do think that in most cases, people either have a drive to succeed, or they do not. I come from a blue-collar family. None of my relatives have attended an elite school; in fact, most have not attended college at all. As long as I can remember, I have had a fierce drive to succeed, to learn, to win, and to maximize every waking moment to it’s fullest potential.

Me: How can you type these things about yourself without laughing? Do you have any idea what a tool you sound like? And I’d love to see where you grew up, and where your parents went to school. It wouldn’t be nearly as blue-collar as you claim, methinks.

Ivy Leaguer said:I will stand up for my belief that an ivy league school absolutely does represent the character of a person.

Me: And I will stand up for my belief that you are a tool. Well, I guess that the rich just happen to have more “character” than everyone else, seeing as how they prevail in the Ivy league at such a scandalous rate. Oh, and I guess your so-called blue-collar family must be of a very low character, seeing as how none of them went to Ivy League schools.

Congratulations. You’re a typical Ivy tool.

]]> By: Ivy Leaguer http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-1285 Ivy Leaguer Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:51:47 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-1285 That's a blatant misconception. From what basis do you conclude "most cases"? I went to an Ivy and can think of only one person I met there whose admission had anything to do with her parents. True, if you are "legacy", you are likely to be admitted (If your parents went, it's more likely that you will attend without financial aid- so it economically makes the most sense to admit "legacy" students)- that being said, these students are at least as good as and usually better than non-legacy students; an admission spot would not be given to a lesser-quality student purely because of their parents' attendance status. Every school has an issue of letting students in (who otherwise would not be) due to financial "incentive" from their parents in the form of a donation. This is by no means exclusive to elite schools. I knew one girl who got in because her parents gave a fat 1.3 million to the school; and she was dumb enough to tell everyone this. It becomes very clear to students of good schools who "deserves" to be there and who doesn't. Right now, she is back at home at her parents house - she failed to conquer the down economy in our graduation year of 2009. She has no job, no friends, and as far as I'm aware, probably still doesn't know how to do her own laundry. So, if that is hostility and resentment I detect towards these "undeserving" students, if this girl is any representation of the larger population (and I believe she is), don't worry - they get what's in store. I do think that in most cases, people either have a drive to succeed, or they do not. I come from a blue-collar family. None of my relatives have attended an elite school; in fact, most have not attended college at all. As long as I can remember, I have had a fierce drive to succeed, to learn, to win, and to maximize every waking moment to it's fullest potential. I worked my ass off in high school. I worked my ass off again in college. And now I am working my ass off on Park Avenue, and just stumbled across this, and have to get back to work. I will stand up for my belief that an ivy league school absolutely does represent the character of a person. Yes, some people go there undeservingly, but for the most part, the ivies admit students who are of good moral character (based on community involvement and service), smart, and hard-working- inherent qualities that we can either choose to show or hide based on our drive to succeed. That’s a blatant misconception. From what basis do you conclude “most cases”? I went to an Ivy and can think of only one person I met there whose admission had anything to do with her parents. True, if you are “legacy”, you are likely to be admitted (If your parents went, it’s more likely that you will attend without financial aid- so it economically makes the most sense to admit “legacy” students)- that being said, these students are at least as good as and usually better than non-legacy students; an admission spot would not be given to a lesser-quality student purely because of their parents’ attendance status.

Every school has an issue of letting students in (who otherwise would not be) due to financial “incentive” from their parents in the form of a donation. This is by no means exclusive to elite schools. I knew one girl who got in because her parents gave a fat 1.3 million to the school; and she was dumb enough to tell everyone this. It becomes very clear to students of good schools who “deserves” to be there and who doesn’t. Right now, she is back at home at her parents house – she failed to conquer the down economy in our graduation year of 2009. She has no job, no friends, and as far as I’m aware, probably still doesn’t know how to do her own laundry. So, if that is hostility and resentment I detect towards these “undeserving” students, if this girl is any representation of the larger population (and I believe she is), don’t worry – they get what’s in store.

I do think that in most cases, people either have a drive to succeed, or they do not. I come from a blue-collar family. None of my relatives have attended an elite school; in fact, most have not attended college at all. As long as I can remember, I have had a fierce drive to succeed, to learn, to win, and to maximize every waking moment to it’s fullest potential. I worked my ass off in high school. I worked my ass off again in college. And now I am working my ass off on Park Avenue, and just stumbled across this, and have to get back to work.

I will stand up for my belief that an ivy league school absolutely does represent the character of a person. Yes, some people go there undeservingly, but for the most part, the ivies admit students who are of good moral character (based on community involvement and service), smart, and hard-working- inherent qualities that we can either choose to show or hide based on our drive to succeed.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-62 Anonymous Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:33:04 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-62 Attending an Ivy (in most cases) says more about the student's parents than it does about the students. What 5 year old says "Screw the cartoons; I want piano lessons". And that's ok..except when it comes to compensation in the business world. I just don't see the connection between playing piano when you are 5 or getting good grades because your parents will beat you if you don't and the ability to make a lot of money for a company. Attending an Ivy (in most cases) says more about the student's parents than it does about the students. What 5 year old says "Screw the cartoons; I want piano lessons". And that's ok..except when it comes to compensation in the business world. I just don't see the connection between playing piano when you are 5 or getting good grades because your parents will beat you if you don't and the ability to make a lot of money for a company.

]]> By: Scheherazade http://www.ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-56 Scheherazade Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:14:54 +0000 http://ivyleagueinsecurities.com/2009/04/whats-so-great-about-the-ivy-league-anyway/#comment-56 Hi there. Found you via Gretchen Rubin's blog. Wrote about some of this myself, a while back, and thought you might find it interesting. (The link to my post about Ivy League schools at my old blog, Stay of Execution, should work if I did things right.) I've enjoyed the poking around your blog that I've been doing. <br /><br />(I'm an ex-lawyer too, and am pleased to have a conference to bring me back to New Haven the week after next.) Hi there. Found you via Gretchen Rubin’s blog. Wrote about some of this myself, a while back, and thought you might find it interesting. (The link to my post about Ivy League schools at my old blog, Stay of Execution, should work if I did things right.) I’ve enjoyed the poking around your blog that I’ve been doing.

(I’m an ex-lawyer too, and am pleased to have a conference to bring me back to New Haven the week after next.)

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